The next is a transcript of an interview with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway, co-hosts of the podcast "Pivot," that aired on Sunday, Nov. 20, 2022.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This weekend there may be uncertainty about Twitter's future underneath its new proprietor Elon Musk. For extra we're joined by tech journalist Kara Swisher, host of "On with Kara Swisher" and from London, Scott Galloway, who's her co-host on the podcast "Pivot" and in addition a professor at NYU. It is good to have you ever each right here, massive weekend. Final evening, Elon Musk, Kara, put Donald Trump, the previous president, again on Twitter. He had been suspended after January 6--
KARA SWISHER: Completely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And he went and he based his personal social media firm, Reality Social, and in keeping with filings, he has a six hour unique, he can solely publish there, not on Twitter.
KARA SWISHER: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So what's lifting the ban on his use of Twitter truly do?
KARA SWISHER: Nothing. I imply, he is been posting- individuals have been posting his- his Truths, I feel that is what they're known as, on Twitter already and it will get out anyway. So he has, , he is obtained these contractual obligations to this firm that isn't doing nice. And I feel he cannot resist, and he'll most likely go full Twitter in some unspecified time in the future. However I do not suppose it makes any distinction. Plus, he is the previous president, so it does not fairly hit fairly as arduous. So I feel the juice is a bit of bit out of his energy on that platform, we'll see.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, he is additionally, Scott, a presidential candidate as we realized just some days in the past. He was kicked off of Fb, Instagram, YouTube, after January 6. Do you suppose this, this opens the floodgates? Or is that this only a gimmick by Elon Musk for PR?
SCOTT GALLOWAY: I feel it is largely the latter. I feel if- if Elon is out of the information for greater than 48 hours, he'll determine to kick him off once more. He mentioned that the individuals had spoken in Latin. I discovered that this poll- Elon Musk polls on Twitter are extra for help than illumination. He ran the same ballot to see whether or not or not he ought to promote Tesla inventory, and it ended up he'd already filed to promote these shares. So I feel these polls are largely a gimmick. And I'd argue the individuals have not spoken the GRU has spoken these, Twitter--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Russian intelligence, you imply?
SCOTT GALLOWAY: Hundred %. Twitter has turn out to be a playground for unhealthy actors and pretend bots. This ballot is meaningless. This resolution is meaningless.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you had predicted earlier that Twitter might collapse. Simply- we have seen hundreds of workers both get fired or stroll off the job. Do you - do you stand by that?
SCOTT GALLOWAY: Effectively, Twitter will survive and even when it does not, let's consider, it is not a nationwide treasure. We might all be simply positive if Twitter went away. However I feel while you see this type of wholesale firing and the best way during which he is gone about firing, that creates such a resentment, I simply see the location happening. I feel we should always do a head of lettuce check versus when the location goes down. What we're not speaking about is the knock on results at Tesla. You realize, while you purchase a Tesla, you are shopping for a pair of Air Jordans, you are associating straight with a person, and no particular person, possibly with exception of Trump, or Putin, has eroded extra of their goodwill and model fairness than Elon Musk. And you then go to Area X, the place everybody who works for the federal government, and this can be a authorities contractor, has a duty to a termination type they should fill out. And I feel he is antagonized sufficient officers that we'll begin seeing extra scrutiny on Area X contracts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, I imply, there was already discuss for nationwide safety functions to evaluate that due to international possession. Kara, for- for customers at residence, what does this truly imply? Like what can we do to guard ourselves? Is there something to guard ourselves towards this?
KARA SWISHER: Yeah, it is collapsing. Twitter used to go down on a regular basis with a "fail whale." It was quite common, and there- you are gonna see extra of that, yeah. I am already seeing points on the platform due to fewer individuals. And that is like, you possibly can't obtain your archive very simply. Should you- in the event you log off and you've got two-factor authentication, good luck getting on and stuff like that you simply're gonna see across the edges. There could be- the issue is that if he begins pushing up massive adjustments, you are gonna see issues. If he begins doing plenty of issues, you are gonna see issues. If one coder makes a mistake, you possibly can see issues and that is what it's. What everybody's gonna do, Margaret, I do know, it is arduous for us media individuals and politicians to grasp, however it's not very massive anyplace else. It is a very small service in comparison with the Facebooks, the Instagrams, and the TikToks of the world. And so I feel it is not gonna matter to most individuals. It is gonna matter to the chattering class who enjoys dunking on one another all through the day, basically.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, I imply, it has turn out to be in some methods a information wire, nearly, from authorities bulletins, issues like that. Scott, I additionally wish to ask you about this gorgeous fall, we noticed this week of- of the founding father of FTX, this cryptocurrency alternate. 30 yr outdated billionaire Sam Bankman-Fried, prime Democratic donor, he is identified on this city. Justice Division, SEC, CFTC are all now investigating. What precisely occurred right here?
SCOTT GALLOWAY: Effectively, on a really broad degree, we do not as a species, we won't assist however to worship individuals. And within the US, we have determined to worship tech billionaires. And so they do not fall into the identical scrutiny together with a 30-year-old MIT graduate, who we're all hoping is form of the subsequent Jesus and does not want a board of administrators or does not want any type of regulatory scrutiny. And in consequence in about 24 hours, you may have the immolation of $34 billion in capital and that's actually take a medium sized metropolis, and everybody in that metropolis on Tuesday has $10,000. And the subsequent day they've zero. So this may herald warranted scrutiny, it is extra spectacle than important as a result of your complete crypto market now could be $800 billion. And Amazon has shed over a trillion dollars. And when the entire FTX debacle was unwinding, the markets have been truly up. So it makes for fascinating information. And in contrast to the good monetary recession, the place we noticed an enormous harm to the economic system, and nobody go to jail, I feel that is gonna be the alternative. I do not suppose it is gonna have a really massive affect on the economic system, however I feel you are gonna see some perp walks right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However some arrests, I imply, the Treasury Secretary was requested by our Nancy Cordes about this, and she or he mentioned, "the absence of applicable supervision and regulation of digital belongings contributed to the collapse." I imply, that is saying, basically, we have been asleep on the wheel, in addition to authorities.
KARA SWISHER: That is early, and so they have not achieved a lot regulation on the common web. And that is 20 years therefore, basically. And they also have been simply beginning to provide you with concepts between the SEC and the CFTC of tips on how to regulate all these items. And Bankman-Fried was a part of it, he was consulted fairly a bit. And lots of people have been, and mentioned he was calling for regulation, in the event you recall, which is considerably ironic, however there hadn't they hadn't discovered tips on how to cope with this very new and type of explosive new monetary instrument. And I feel that is extra the issue is Washington strikes at a glacial tempo round this stuff. They have been transferring quicker than they've in different areas, however they definitely hadn't figured it out. However in the end, that is going to be, , some type of fraud case or one thing like that. I agree with Scott, somebody's going to jail.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott, there are additionally layoffs, not simply at Twitter, however we noticed some at Fb, we noticed job cuts at Amazon. You've got known as this a "Patagonia vest" recession. What does that imply precisely?
SCOTT GALLOWAY: Effectively, most recessions are both labeled white or blue collar, which means that they usually affect one cohort greater than the opposite, both executives, white collar, or blue collar, type of the working class. That is the Patagonia huge recession. And that's, we'll see extra individuals laid off and the expansion a part of our economic system that has type of been the present that retains on giving for 13 years. However once more, Margaret, I feel that is extra noise than information as a result of 99.99% of the individuals on the planet would pray to be just lately laid off individual from Meta or Google. Should you've been just lately laid off from considered one of these corporations, it implies that you most likely went to an elite college, you reside in a metropolis the place the expansion prospects or the economic system is rising like loopy. And you might be your largest drawback will not be going to be what to do, however what to not do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What if you're an H1B visa recipient, and also you get despatched again residence?
SCOTT GALLOWAY: That is a good level.
KARA SWISHER: You noticed that image from Twitter, I imply, Elon put some, one other performative picture up of them - doing coding. I am unsure what they have been doing. However there have been individuals there that have been clearly from different international locations. And so they're caught there. They're form of they cannot depart and I feel that is one of many points you are gonna have for all these individuals is the place did they go? Numerous corporations are taken care of, and I feel Fb was considered one of them, or Meta was doing that in order that they'll attempt to determine it out. However Scott's 100% proper. These are individuals who have plenty of choices, and there might be extra jobs for them, comparatively. And I'll be aware that Scott does himself have a Patagonia vest and is doing simply positive. I've seen it.
(CROSS TALK)
SCOTT GALLOWAY: By no means.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, subsequent time. You bought to put on it, Scott. Thanks. Good to see you. Scott's becoming a member of us there from London and Kara, good to have you ever right here in studio.