The next is a transcript of an interview with former Homeland Safety Secretaries Jeh Johnson and Michael Chertoff that aired Sunday, Nov. 27, 2022, on "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we wish to proceed that dialog about a few of the nationwide safety dangers, together with gun violence. We will try this now with two former homeland safety chiefs. I've obtained Jeh Johnson, who served beneath former President Obama. He is in Montclair, New Jersey, this morning. And Michael Chertoff held the job beneath former President George W. Bush. He is at house in Washington, D.C. Good morning to you each, gents. You simply heard the dialog. Consultant Clyburn says you set to work collectively, but additionally stated they cannot get something carried out within the Senate. So the place does that depart us within the wake of three shootings? Is additional laws simply not one thing we should always even be speaking about at this level?
FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY MICHAEL CHERTOFF: Properly, I believe we might at all times get some laws on assault weapons and, , that might be useful. However acknowledge no legislation goes to take care of the issue solely. As you identified, you've individuals who legally purchased weapons after which dedicated these horrible acts. So though laws is a part of the answer. One other a part of the answer is coping with what's rising to be a- virtually a psychological well being disaster resulting in violent acts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jeh Johnson there, sorry, I would like you to leap in. I imply, it was a handgun in Charlottesville, Virginia. It was a handgun in Chesapeake, Virginia. It was an AR 15 type in Colorado Springs. So is it a gun disaster? Is it a psychological well being disaster? Which is it?
FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: Properly, at the beginning, Margaret, I consider that the issue, the central drawback, the widespread thread by all of those incidents is the prevalence of weapons in America. The person circumstances of every episode are usually somewhat completely different. The motive tends to be completely different. The placement is completely different. The weapon is completely different. However the issue we have now on this nation nationwide is the prevalence of weapons in America. I don't for a second surrender on the potential of additional gun security laws. Now we have to get off this standpoint of the NRA that if they provide an inch, we'll take a mile. We are able to regulate weapons in America in line with the Second Modification, in line with the constitutional proper of a accountable gun proprietor to personal a gun for searching, for- for their very own private security of their household. And Mike can be proper. There's extra to do on the - on the psychological well being entrance. There's extra to do to lift consciousness amongst co-workers, households, individuals at school in regards to the warning indicators of somebody heading towards violence in order that the indicators are simple sooner or later.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However how do you resolve for a psychological well being disaster? Secretary Chertoff, I imply, the place do you start?
CHERTOFF: Properly, we start with what we name "pink flag legal guidelines" during which somebody's weapons may be taken away if there is a report that they will be apt to violence or they have been speaking about doing one thing that might contain killing individuals. So definitely implementing these "pink flag legal guidelines'' is a constructive step. Extra usually, I believe we'd like off-ramps for people who find themselves troubled and liable to be violent that don't contain the felony justice course of. So we encourage relations to step ahead and get assist for somebody who may, given the passage of time, choose up a gun and do an act of violence. And eventually, I do assume the social media have a duty to watch for violent, inciting rhetoric on public platforms. Sadly, we see loads of the individuals who've carried out these assaults actually announce them prematurely. And the tragedy is no one intervenes to cease it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However Secretary Jeh Johnson, I imply, you simply heard me speak about Jim Clyburn, the actual fact that there have been "pink flag legal guidelines" in place in, for instance, Colorado. Every state has type of completely different attributes to their legal guidelines and who can name in a fear to take away weapons from the family of somebody. Is that this simply going to proceed to be a patchwork of various issues due to the federal system?
JOHNSON: I believe Mike and I each know that in these instances it's virtually at all times sure that the warning indicators are obvious. Folks typically do not wish to see them. Nevertheless, the mum or dad does not wish to see them. The nice buddy at school does not wish to see them. The co-worker does not wish to see them, does not wish to report. And so, as I stated earlier than, I believe it is essential that we increase consciousness about what these warning indicators are the truth is. May we higher implement our pink flag legal guidelines? May we encourage individuals to invoke them to make the most of them extra typically? Completely. I agree with Mike on that. However the warning indicators are virtually at all times there. They're simple.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to speak extra about this with each of you in a second, however I've to take a fast break. So please stick with us and all of you, please stick with us as nicely. Face the Nation. We'll be again in a minute.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks for becoming a member of Face the Nation with former Homeland Safety Secretary Jeh Johnson and Michael Chertoff. Gents, I like with the ability to have you ever each right here since you each handled a really laborious drawback set. And so lots of people have opinions, however you truly know what it is wish to be within the job. So let me offer you a extremely laborious one, which is what to do in regards to the southern border. Within the final yr, two and a half million migrants, roughly, have been encountered. That may be a report excessive. The governor of Texas is boasting that he is despatched greater than 13,000 immigrants to New York, to Chicago, to Washington, and now to Philadelphia, the place busloads arrived this week. Secretary Chertoff, these migrants have authorized standing as a result of they are going by asylum. Are the asylum legal guidelines too beneficiant on this nation?
CHERTOFF: Properly, we will definitely check out the asylum legal guidelines, however usually we obey worldwide legislation, which talks in regards to the obligation to obtain refugees. And actually, now we have now the difficulty of Ukrainians who're fleeing what's going on with the conflict in Ukraine. So definitely you possibly can perceive why individuals search asylum. One of many issues the administration has carried out, which I believe is useful, is that they've moved the analysis course of all the way down to these brokers who have been truly within the area to hurry it as much as be sure to can decide whether or not there is a colorable declare and if not, ship individuals again. And so they're additionally working to useful resource and streamline the method of constructing remaining adjudications. In order that's all to the nice, however it's not going to occur in a single day. Additionally, I do know the administration is working with nonprofits to create protected places that individuals can keep whereas their claims are being adjudicated. I believe stunts like what Governor Abbott has carried out actually do not tackle the issue. There ought to be a means of getting consideration over the backs of people who find themselves fleeing real crises in different components of the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of to get asylum it's essential to present worry of persecution, torture due to race, faith, nationality, political opinion, different causes. That is what these individuals did and have been allowed in. Simply to be clear. Former Secretary Johnson, , one of many issues the Biden administration simply misplaced, although, is without doubt one of the instruments they have been utilizing to show individuals away. And over a million of these encounters I talked about have been people- have been expelled beneath Title 42, in line with Customs and Border Safety. This was a pandemic period coverage that stated, due to COVID, individuals did not essentially have to get into the nation. That goes away on the finish of the on the finish of December. What then occurs?
JOHNSON: Properly, first, Margaret, I've to be trustworthy in regards to the asylum legal guidelines and the processing. It takes six years proper now to course of an asylum declare as soon as somebody has entered this nation. And one of many issues is that the bar to qualify initially and set up a case of credible worry is comparatively low. One thing like 70% of migrants qualify who search it. And the final word qualification for asylum, the share there's solely about 20%, and it is six years in between. Migrants know this. And so we have to develop a system the place we will extra expeditiously take care of these claims, but additionally check out the credible worry customary itself. I do know my associates on the left will not be too pleased to listen to that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No politician goes to take that vote.
JOHNSON: Properly, it may be carried out probably by regulation. And I believe it is one thing that should be checked out. Now when it comes to Title 42, when CDC first introduced in Could that it was going to carry this, I and others have been against it. We thought there wanted to be a extra orderly transition. It's a rare authority and it is in all probability time now for it to go away in December. However the potential to ship individuals again expeditiously, just like the administration has been doing, must now get replaced with one thing else. And I believe there the dialogue goes to should happen with Mexico to extra expeditiously settle for individuals again. We despatched again one thing like 1.4 million final yr, utilizing partially Title 42. We want one thing to interchange that. And I believe working with the federal government of Mexico and admittedly, getting them to do extra to step up on that is a part of that reply.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I would like for you each in a short time to weigh in on what occurs if the Republican led Congress goes forward with this vow to question or attempt to impeach the present secretary of homeland safety. Does that imply all of the belongings you instructed do not occur and Congress is simply tied in knots? Secretary Chertoff?
CHERTOFF: Properly, it might be a really unhappy day if in search of what's once more a political stunt, , threatening to question Secretary Mayorkas. Congress did not do issues, for instance, as Secretary Johnson simply instructed, perhaps modify the usual with respect to asylum, create extra assets which can be out there to adjudicate and work out extra methods to fund the trouble to undermine the cartels and the smugglers, that are an enormous a part of this. So it might be principally placing type over substance to undergo an enormous efficiency on impeachment that is by no means going wherever, reasonably than truly working with the administration to resolve the issue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Secretary Johnson, I think about you agree?
JOHNSON: Margaret, what individuals have to know and Michael and I do know this, the secretary of homeland safety is concentrated on border safety, maritime safety, aviation safety, cybersecurity, the Coast Guard, the Secret Service, and a bunch of different issues. We won't have a secretary who's distracted by a stunt in Congress in an try at impeachment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper. Thanks very a lot to each of you secretaries for weighing in. We'll be proper again.