On this "Face the Nation" broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Rep. Henry Cuellar, Democrat of Texas
- Jeh Johnson, former homeland safety secretary
- Robert Pape, College of Chicago professor
- Andriy Kostin, prosecutor common of Ukraine
- Main Garrett and David Becker
Click on right here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: Home and worldwide crises take a look at international relations, as world leaders converge in London for Queen Elizabeth's funeral. Their subsequent cease, the annual United Nations gathering in New York.
And, as President Biden struggles to battle financial headwinds, a political battle over immigration explodes, when pink state governors choose up the tempo on relocating migrants crossing their borders by unceremoniously relocating them to blue state sanctuaries, just like the sidewalk in entrance of the vice chairman's Washington house.
Plus, Russian President Vladimir Putin faces a public rebuke from a key companion and the chilly shoulder from one other, as Ukrainians retake extra of their territory, uncovering horrors left behind by Russian forces.
Lastly, our persevering with protection of the stress take a look at of our democracy, as our nervous nation begins the 50-day countdown to midterm Election Day.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
It's a somber Sunday as we come on the air in the present day. In London, there's unprecedented safety for the a whole bunch of world leaders, together with President Biden, who're gathering for tomorrow's state funeral of Queen Elizabeth. It will likely be the most important meeting of heads of state and authorities in years.
Our Scott Pelley spoke with President Biden earlier than he left for the U.Okay. and mentioned how he is navigating the brand new world order for tonight's season premiere of 60 Minutes.
(Start VT)
SCOTT PELLEY: President Xi and Vladimir Putin have met on the identical day that you just and I are sitting right here within the White Home. And I'm wondering, if it is a new, extra sophisticated Chilly Struggle, how do you handle it?
JOE BIDEN (President of the US): I do not assume it's a new, extra sophisticated Chilly Struggle.
Look, when President Xi invited Putin to Beijing through the Olympics, the place that they had their assembly and their -- the brand new relationship, not lengthy after that, I known as President Xi, to not threaten in any respect, simply to say to him -- we have now met many instances.
And I stated that: "For those who assume that People and others had been going to proceed to put money into China based mostly in your violating the sanctions which have been imposed on Russia, I believe you make a big mistake. However that is your choice to make."
Up to now, there isn't any indication that they've put ahead weapons or something that Russia has needed. So -- properly, perhaps I should not say any extra.
SCOTT PELLEY: Oh, I want you'd.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right here at house, a political firestorm erupted between Republicans and Democrats over immigration, a problem made extra sophisticated by difficult relationships between the U.S. and a few of our neighbors to the south.
Republican governors have been relocating some who've crossed the border into their pink states for months now. However, final week, the photographs of migrants flown or bused from Texas to Martha's Winery, Vice President Harris' residence in Washington and New York Metropolis has sparked a fury of political backlash.
(Start VT)
KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the US): I believe it's the top of irresponsibility, a lot much less simply, frankly, a dereliction of obligation if you find yourself an elected chief to play these sorts of video games with human life.
GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS (R-Florida): They had been so proud to be sanctuary jurisdictions, saying how dangerous it was to have a safe border. The minute even a small fraction of what these border cities cope with daily is dropped at their entrance door, they abruptly go berserk.
GOVERNOR GREG ABBOTT (R-Texas): Now New Yorkers and folks in Washington, D.C., are having to cope with it. And now Texas is sharing our ache with the remainder of the nation.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The U.S. is about to report greater than two million migrant arrests on the border with Mexico this yr, a report excessive.
We flip now to Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar. He represents a border a district in South Texas. And he joins us this morning from Laredo.
Congressman, I do know you're feeling strongly about what's occurring in your yard. I'm wondering if each you and your constituents assist busing these migrants up and down the East Coast?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR (D-Texas): Look, initially, we'd like options, and never theater.
By sending off -- people off to New York and Chicago, it does carry consideration, however I -- we wish to focus extra on options on the border. We acquired to offer Border Patrol, we acquired to offer ICE, Homeland Safety the tools, ensuring they've every part the place they'll implement the legislation, as a result of, if we do not have repercussions on the border, we will proceed getting 8,000 folks a day.
And let me point out yet one more factor, Margaret. They could get two buses a day in a few of these cities. Only for my hometown in Laredo, we're sending out 21 to 26 buses a time out of Laredo, simply to offer you an concept of what is occurring right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. Proper. Understood, the amount, however, after all, in a few of these locations like Martha's Winery, there aren't even migration facilities, and there was no coordination.
Is that the half you are objecting to?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: Sure, look, in any case, the migrants are human beings, and we have got to deal with them like human beings.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: They're getting used as political pawns to get publicity.
However, on the identical time, I characterize among the poorest counties alongside the border within the nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
Properly, I do know you've got shared with us some video of what is occurring in your district, that legislation enforcement officers have shared with you some photos, some video that our viewers are seeing proper now. Is legislation enforcement getting the sources that they want?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: No.
Look, the women and men in inexperienced, the women and men from Homeland, they should get the assist. They're good women and men, and what they should do is have two issues. One, they should get extra personnel, and we're including extra personnel within the appropriations invoice. They should get the tools. They should get -- however -- they should get assist.
However crucial factor, is that they acquired to have the ability to implement the repercussions, as a result of if you happen to do not implement the repercussions...
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that imply? What does that imply, repercussions? Are you speaking about the truth that many of those migrants which are being bused are from nations like Venezuela, the place the U.S. can't deport them due to diplomatic relations being so strained?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: Look, proper now, we're getting folks from Saudi Arabia, China, India, Bangladesh, and, after all, Cuba and Venezuela.
There are specific people, the nations which may not settle for among the folks, you bought to take a look at asylum. However most people coming in do not apply for asylum. We have to do -- as your subsequent visitor goes to say, Secretary Jeh Johnson, he handled the folks with respect.
However on the finish of the day, he enforced the legislation, and he returned folks. And one of many issues that this administration shouldn't be doing is, they're displaying folks -- he confirmed folks going and touchdown within the nations in Honduras and El Salvador to point out that there is repercussions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: Margaret, when was the final time you noticed -- you noticed an image or video of individuals going again? You solely see folks coming in. And you have to have phrases, together with motion to implement it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
I imply, it is fairly sophisticated. However Title 42 nonetheless is in place. There's expelling of migrants occurring. It feels like what I hear you saying is, you need the White Home or higher-level officers to go and make these public statements.
Vice President Harris, when she was requested about this, pointed proper again to folks together with your job, lawmakers, to go rewrite the legal guidelines and go immigration reform. What truly must be performed, and the way do you reply to that?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: Look, there are sufficient -- and with all respect to the V.P., there are sufficient legal guidelines on the ebook proper now that may return folks again.
Secretary Johnson, your subsequent visitor, did it the suitable means. He handled folks with dignity, however he returned folks, and he confirmed photos of individuals being returned, as a result of, proper now, the cartels are utilizing folks as a result of they make, as an example, $8,000 an individual.
In two years, with all of the folks that have are available in, the get-aways included, that is about 4 million people. You multiply that by $8,000, and that exhibits you ways a lot these dangerous guys are being enriched on the sake of those human beings.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
Properly, on that time, the homeland safety secretary was on this program again in July after these 53 migrants died in essentially the most tragic smuggling incident on this nation. And he stated it's doable, due to how subtle these smugglers have gotten, to bypass U.S. checkpoint generally.
Is it that the framing of this dialog is totally improper, that it isn't simply folks strolling throughout, that it is rather subtle felony enterprises?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: Look, all people that comes throughout is in some way managed by the dangerous guys.
I imply, folks simply do not occur to stroll throughout a river or throughout the border. It is all managed by the migrants. Each sector, for instance, alongside the border is managed by some type of cartel throughout. Sure, they're very subtle. Sure, they have the cash. Sure, they do counterintelligence.
What occurred to these 53 migrants, we do not have a checkpoint that is large enough to deal with what we're seeing, so the dangerous guys had been ready to make use of that checkpoint, as a result of we've not put the sources on that checkpoint like we have to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm. And I do know you have shared photos with us of among the coyotes, among the smugglers who've gotten these trailers stuffed with folks throughout.
However there's interdiction going down. I do know you recognize that. What are you saying is required?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: Oh, sure, however I -- however -- properly, what I am saying is, if you happen to have a look at the Border Patrol sectors in my space, 60 p.c of the Border Patrol brokers are in border processing facilities, that's, they're taking good care of migrants; 10 p.c of them are doing administrative work.
That leaves solely 30 p.c of the Border Patrol doing the work, 30 p.c. Subsequently, massive numbers coming in might be crossing, and then you definately even have extra deaths on the market, as a result of there's much less Border Patrol brokers saving' Border Patrol wants assist. Women and men in inexperienced need assistance, no ifs, no buts about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, lastly, one of many larger issues on this nation proper now could be the economic system and the employee scarcity that we have now.
I'm wondering if that is a part of that. When you've got people who find themselves determined for financial alternative coming right here and America wants staff, is not there some strategy to make this work for America?
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: Completely.
I assist a guest-worker plan. I assist a means you could -- and we handed that from the Home. And we're ready for our Senate to get that performed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR: And I'll let you know that, if we have now folks beneath a guest-worker plan, then Border Patrol's job might be performed simpler, as a result of the folks searching for a job will come within the authorized means, after which Border Patrol can give attention to the dangerous folks.
So, it might assist us on safety. So, we have to make our authorized system work higher.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
All proper, Congressman, thanks on your insights.
And we now to the visitor you heard the congressman speaking about, Jeh Johnson. He served as homeland safety secretary beneath former President Obama. And he joins us this morning from New Jersey.
Mr. Secretary, your insurance policies are being endorsed right here. I do not know if you wish to reply, although, to what the congressman stated, when it comes to a stronger message needing to be despatched by this administration, going to nations and displaying that expelling of migrants is going on.
JEH JOHNSON (Former U.S. Secretary of Homeland Safety): Properly, thanks for having me on, Margaret.
First, I do know that following me is Professor Robert Pape, who will current some findings on his analysis. I've been an enormous proponent of his analysis now in regards to the issues round white nationalism for a while. And I urge your viewers to pay shut consideration to what Professor Pape has to say.
Info -- unlawful immigration is an information-sensitive phenomenon. It reacts sharply to data within the market about perceived adjustments in enforcement coverage on our Southern border. This administration, I imagine unfairly, is perceived as lax on border enforcement.
Actually, we're sending again over 100,000 folks a month and have been for the final two years, over two million folks. The lesson I realized managing this difficulty is, you have to repeat your self perhaps 25 instances earlier than anyone will hearken to you. You must present that we're, in reality, sending folks again...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why is not that taking place?
FORMER SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: ... in all probability about as quick as -- properly, that is a very good query.
My pleasant recommendation to the present administration, DHS and the White Home is, we have now to repeatedly stress that we're, in reality, with the equipment of presidency, about as quick as we in all probability can, given the present authorized assemble and the sources we have now, sending folks again at properly over 100,000, both expel expulsion or deportation.
That is lots of people. Now, there is a bigger downside right here that, frankly, we didn't face once I was in workplace. We had been dealing principally with the Northern Triangle nations, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and Mexico.
This downside has develop into hemispheric. Along with these nations, you now have Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela who usually are not cooperating with us. Their nations are actually imploding, and there's migration to the north and the south.
Our Border Patrol capabilities, our sources are larger than they had been eight, seven years in the past, once I was in workplace. However they do battle to maintain up with this disaster.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
FORMER SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: And, from my viewpoint, we have to stress that we're, in reality, returning folks as quick as we will.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, in the case of shifting migrants across the nation proper now -- you are a lawyer -- the federal authorities strikes migrants from the border to different components of this nation very often.
What is the distinction when a state governor does it, albeit, I do know, with out warning?
FORMER SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: Properly, there is a proper means and a improper means to try this, Margaret.
The improper means is, on 20 minutes' discover, to ship folks by bus or airplane to the Edgartown Airport or to Mass Ave. in entrance of the vice chairman's residence with out giving native sources, NGOs, shelter's native authorities a possibility to plan for the way they intend to feed and dress and home migrants.
What the governors of Florida and Texas are doing, frankly, is a political stunt and treating folks like livestock. The appropriate strategy to transfer folks to the inside -- and I believe it is one thing that we must always do -- 8,000 a day into McAllen, into Henry Cuellar's district, in Laredo or El Paso, I've been saying for a while shouldn't be sustainable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
FORMER SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: And so we do want to maneuver folks to the inside, however by means of a well-coordinated effort, in coordination with NGOs, Catholic Charities, state and native authorities and the federal authorities.
There's a proper means to try this. It requires coordination and cooperation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why is not that taking place, I suppose, is the query we preserve coming again to.
And, as you are saying, it is changing into politicized. The Wall Avenue Journal had an op-ed saying it is onerous to think about a much bigger spectacle of American political failure than the histrionics over migrants. They slam Republicans for staging a political stunt, however in addition they say Democrats are simply attempting to deflect away from their very own border coverage failures. Is that a truthful evaluation, in your view?
FORMER SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: Frankly, Margaret, the politics presently are such that politicians, elected officers discover it extra advantageous to easily scream on the different aspect and complain about how evil or lax the opposite aspect is.
It does take political braveness to return collectively and put collectively laws on complete immigration reform. It handed the Senate in 2013. It failed within the Home in 2014. However that is merely the one means we will cope with this downside by means of guest-worker packages, by means of stronger border safety, by means of attempting to handle the issue on the supply.
It takes political braveness, however, proper now, the politics of this difficulty are all improper. And I am afraid nothing's getting performed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However we have now a disaster, so it requires motion. Do you see a transparent, coordinated planning or technique from the White Home, that controls Customs and Border Patrol and Homeland Safety and the folks on the entrance strains of this?
FORMER SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: I do know DHS is working very onerous. They've ramped up the sources to cope with the inflow on the Southern border.
It is a lot bigger. The flexibility to maneuver bigger volumes of individuals is far bigger than it was seven, eight years in the past. However there must be a extra complete federal, state, native, govt and legislative department effort at this. And we will do that, if we're prepared to cooperate, work collectively, train some political braveness, have the governor of Texas prepared to work with the governors of some Northern states...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
FORMER SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: ... at shifting folks in a extra coordinated, cooperative vogue into the inside of our nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Johnson, thanks on your evaluation this morning.
Face the Nation might be proper again. Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We wish to have a look now on the newest challenges going through our economic system.
Our Mark Strassmann stories from Los Angeles.
(Start VT)
MARK STRASSMANN (voice-over): Again on monitor, America's railroads, with a tentative labor deal. However nobody can appear to place the brakes on inflation, the newest fee, 8.3 p.c.
That is six straight months above 8 p.c.
DIANE SWONK (Chief Economist, KPMG): We now have an inflation which may be rather more entrenched and sticky.
MARK STRASSMANN: Economist Diane Swonk, an adviser to the Federal Reserve, worries staff preserve shedding floor.
DIANE SWONK: All of the features in employment we have now seen, all of the acceleration in wages we have now seen, we have now misplaced all of that, after which some, to inflation.
MARK STRASSMANN: Blame a tangle of lingering buffeters, together with the pandemic restoration, shopper demand, Ukraine and the provision chain muddle, which is why averting a railroad strike was so essential.
This does not assist, the backlog at Southern California ports, the gateway for roughly 40 p.c of American imports. Right here, on the Port of Los Angeles, the director says 28,000 delivery containers have to exit by practice. That quantity needs to be zero.
Excellent news, dropping gasoline costs; $3.68 gallon is the nationwide common, down 26 cents within the final month. Now dangerous information. Grocery prices jumped 13.5 p.c yr to yr, the most important leap since 1979, electrical energy, automotive repairs lease all up, identical for medical prices, even journeys to the dentist.
With extra folks dwelling paycheck to paycheck, the typical family spending $460 extra a month than a yr in the past, and mortgage charges additionally trending up. The 30-year fastened common creeped above 6 p.c for the primary time in 14 years.
For on a regular basis People, it is so much. And the extra entrenched inflation turns into, the thornier the restoration. On Tuesday, the Fed meets once more, and you recognize the agenda. Analysts anticipate one other fee hike, the fifth one this yr.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our Mark Strassmann reporting from Los Angeles.
We might be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to Ukraine and up to date setbacks for Russian President Vladimir Putin, each diplomatically and on the bottom in Ukraine.
That blue space is territory retaken by Ukraine in current days, and so they have made some horrific discoveries there.
CBS Information overseas correspondent Debora Patta stories.
(Start VT)
DEBORA PATTA (voice-over): That is what Russian troops left behind after they fled Izyum in panic, a pine forest of dying, greater than 400 picket crosses marking shallow graves, and new allegations of atrocities so as to add to an inventory of warfare crimes so lengthy, it numbers over 30,000.
It is overwhelming for investigators, who've been at it for months now. A number of torture chambers throughout the area dispense the phobia that saved civilian populations beneath management. These grim discoveries come after a lightning counteroffensive reclaimed many of the territory seized by Russia within the northeast in the beginning of the warfare.
It started right here in Bayrak, the place Russian troopers fled their bases down right here in panic, clearing the best way for Ukrainian forces to reshape the battlefields of Kharkiv.
Vladimir Putin's warfare shouldn't be going in keeping with plan. Here is Volodymyr Zelenskyy braving liberated cities close to the entrance line to pay tribute to his troopers this previous week.
President Zelenskyy...
The place he informed us he intends to maintain Russian troops on the run.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY (Ukrainian President): The principle factor is, we're coming again, and we're on the best way to the top.
DEBORA PATTA: In hanging distinction to Vladimir Putin, desperately needing allies, who has but to go to his troops on the bottom.
(MAN SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DEBORA PATTA: Lowered to this, a video displaying the chief of the Russian mercenary group Wagner recruiting prisoners for the warfare in Ukraine, promising freedom in alternate for preventing on the entrance line.
Wagner has been accused of human rights atrocities in Syria and several other African nations, elevating the haunting worry of extra picket crosses on shallow graves in a rustic that has already endured unimaginable struggling.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our Debora Patta reporting in Ukraine.
We might be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We might be proper again with much more Face the Nation.
Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
We're joined now by Andriy Kostin, the prosecutor common of Ukraine.
Good morning and thanks for being right here.
ANDRIY KOSTIN, (Prosecutor Basic of Ukraine): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We simply noticed our correspondent present some fairly horrific photos of what's occurring in your nation. You retain a database of doable warfare crimes. You've got greater than 30,000 documented. How do you start to type by means of them and prioritize? ANDRIY KOSTIN: Initially, for the time being we have now fastened (ph) 34,000 warfare crimes in Ukraine. Once we are speaking about prioritization, after all, the circumstances, like we see in the present day and yesterday and days earlier than of warfare crimes dedicated in Kharkiv area, together with the Izium, after all, such circumstances are our precedence.
Nonetheless, we have now loads of circumstances that are nonetheless ongoing which began in locations like Bucha and Irpin. And all the shelling and destroying of all of civil objects in Ukraine are additionally fastened after which are additionally investigated.
So, what we see now could be, after all, the horrible quantity of potential warfare crimes dedicated by Russian aggressor. I wish to say even that what we see now could be a system of Russian aggressor. What they do on the occupied territory. And evidently, for me, that at any time when Russian military comes, they flip this place into new Bucha, as we see in Izium.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Your president was on this program within the spring within the wake of Bucha, the place it was horrific, the photographs. He known as that genocide. Are you seeing proof of genocide? Are you able to carry that case to a courtroom?
ANDRIY KOSTIN: We've got a case on genocide within the workplace the prosecutor common. And we're in on a regular basis in communication with worldwide felony courtroom and Prosecutor Hahn (ph), as a result of the Worldwide Prison Court docket has additionally the authority to take a look at the genocide case. So, we perceive that each one of those info put collectively will lead us to doable conviction in crime of genocide.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No sitting chief has ever been prosecuted for genocide. Are you able to truly show that Vladimir Putin licensed or knew all of what was occurring beneath the command of his navy?
ANDRIY KOSTIN: After all, it isn't a simple strategy to show that this method of command, duty from the very best degree. What we perceive for the time being, that the crime of aggression is certainly, we all know who's accountable for it as a result of the crime of aggression is the mom of all of those crimes, of warfare crimes, genocide, as a result of with out aggression there might be no different warfare crimes. And for that purpose, for the crime of aggression, the very best political and navy management needs to be prosecuted and needs to be punished.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This previous week the US sanctioned the presidential commissioner for kids's rights -- that is an odd title given what she's accused of -- who has overseen the taking of kids and forcing them into Russia. Your ambassador has put that quantity at 91,000. There are stories that Secretary Blinken has cited that places that quantity at 260,000 kids taken from their households.
What number of of those youngsters could be returned and might you show that that is a part of this sample you are speaking about of genocide, an intent to destroy?
ANDRIY KOSTIN: We undoubtedly perceive that the kidnapping and forcibly shifting of our kids of the way forward for Ukrainian nation, forcibly -- forcibly despatched to Russia is, after all, from my viewpoint, is a component of potential genocide. I'll let you know that for the time being we have now greater than 50 kids, solely 53, 55 kids returned to Ukraine. A few of them now are in a protected place in Europe. However the quantity which we within the workplace of prosecutor common have is 1000's and 1000's of kids, for which we have now actual proof that they had been kidnapped and forcibly despatched to Russia. We recognized now greater than 5.5 thousand (ph) kids who had been kidnapped and despatched to Russia as a result of we -
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
ANDRIY KOSTIN: In our workplace, we have to determine undoubtedly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. And the US has now pointed that determine - determine - finger, excuse me, proper on the Kremlin.
I wish to ask you about intercourse crimes and sexual assault and rape. There have been some horrific accounts, ladies chained in basements, kids who're attacked. I do not even wish to recite half of what I learn yesterday.
Is rape a deliberate act of subjugation being utilized by Russia?
ANDRIY KOSTIN: We noticed it in Bucha. We all know that these circumstances the place in Kharkiv area, which is now deliberated (ph), we have now evidences of those circumstances. Crucial is to seek out out correct evidences and to repair them correctly. What - what I want - what I want for the time being now, I created a particular unit within the prosecutor workplace common for the sexual violence crimes. And we have now a selected crew of prosecutors who're properly educated for this class of crimes.
The -- it is essential for us to speak with folks and to seek out out these circumstances to ensure that the victims of those circumstances to report about them. And because of this, we are also in shut contact with our colleagues in European nations the place lots of people who -- Ukrainians who fled to Europe, a few of them might be victims or witnesses of sexual violence crimes. And we are actually speaking, looking for additionally these circumstances. Not -- within the workplace of prosecutor common, we have now now greater than 40 ongoing investigations on circumstances the place we undoubtedly know that the crime of sexual violence was dedicated by Russian aggressors.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sir, thanks on your time in the present day, Mr. Prosecutor Basic.
ANDRIY KOSTIN: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good luck to you.
We'll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to democracy and politics. College of Chicago Professor Robert Pape research political violence.
And, Professor Pape, good morning to you.
ROBERT PAPE (College of Chicago Professor of Political Science): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is good to have you ever right here in individual.
Once we spoke again in January in regards to the analysis you have performed at that time, you issued a warning that caught with us since you talked about the specter of political violence across the midterm elections. We're 50 days away. What are you anxious about now?
ROBERT PAPE: Margaret, we have now not only a political menace to our democracy, we have now a violent menace to our democracy. It is essential to do not forget that January sixth wasn't simply trespassing and going right into a federal constructing. 1000's of people used violence to cease the peaceable switch of presidential energy.
What we have now been monitoring at our heart on the College of Chicago, the Chicago Challenge on Safety and Threats, for a yr and a half is the violent portion of that insurrectionist motion. Right this moment, there are hundreds of thousands of people who do not simply assume the election was stolen in 2020, they assist violence to revive Donald Trump to the White Home.
Actually, simply over the weekend, that's just some days in the past, we carried out our most up-to-date nationally consultant survey. Right this moment there are 13 million people -- the equal, I ought to say, of 13 million people who assist using power to revive Donald Trump to the presidency.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is about 5 p.c of the U.S. inhabitants.
ROBERT PATE: 5 p.c.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have extrapolated out out of your analysis. That is clearly disturbing.
I wish to ask you in regards to the context we're in proper now as a result of we're seeing loads of stressors. The economic system, clearly considered one of them, and what we have been speaking about in the present day, immigration.
ROBERT PATE: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And migration. You had been on final time speaking about one thing known as the good substitute idea. And that's the perception amongst a few of these insurrectionists that the Democratic Get together is attempting to switch voters with new folks, extra obedient voters.
How widespread is that conviction and does what is going on now in cities up and down the East Coast set off this?
ROBERT PATE: It possible might, Margaret, reinforce these fears of the good substitute. To be clear, we're specializing in not simply assist for Trump, however the violent assist for Trump that overrides democracy. And if you have a look at that, what you see is there are two massive drivers amongst these 13 million people. The primary driver is that this worry of the good substitute. The concept the Democratic Get together is changing the present voters, the present white voters with extra minority voters from the third world. And also you hear the --
MARGARET BRENNAN: And to be clear, non-U.S. residents can't vote in federal elections within the midterm races.
ROBERT PATE: That is proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Simply to be abundantly clear. Please proceed.
ROBERT PATE: That's appropriate. It's a conspiracy idea. However it's not simply on fringe social media, like Parler, Gab, 4chan, 8chan. That is daily on Fox Information. It is on Newsmax. It is on OneAmerica. It is on discuss radio. So, that is driver primary.
Driver quantity two is a perception within the QAnon cult concept, which, at first blush sounds a bit -- virtually laughable that they'd imagine a satanic group of pedophiles runs the U.S. authorities. However we have performed focus teams with these people and what they actually imply by that, Margaret, is that there are politicians which have gotten on the Lolita Specific with Jeffrey Epstein and have taken cash for foundations, for political assist.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Corruption.
ROBERT PATE: For corrupt. That is what's actually what is going on on. So, if you happen to marry these two collectively, you've got a harmful cocktail. You've got the worry of this nice substitute occurring by a Democratic Get together after which you've got the worry of corruption and immorality. And that is that harmful mixture that is resulting in violent assist in opposition to our democracy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you simply talked about QAnon. And, as you simply defined, it is a set of conspiracy theories involving intercourse trafficking. And there's this perception that former President Trump is the one individual -- or one of many individuals who might finish all of it. And I wish to play some video right here as a result of at a political rally final evening, Mr. Trump used a tune titled after a QAnon slogan. I will play the sound and listeners must hearken to the music, not essentially what the president is saying. Hearken to the background music.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: It will by no means have occurred with me as your commander in chief and for 4 lengthy years it did not occur. And China, with Taiwan, is subsequent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That may be a QAnon tune. The previous president has posted photos of himself sporting a "q" on his lapel on social media with the phrase "the storm is coming." That is one other considered one of their slogans.
What does all of this imply and is it threatening?
ROBERT PATE: First, it's threatening. Simply to chop proper to the guts of it. What it means is that the previous president is prepared to courtroom, not simply supporters of his, however those that assist violence for his objectives, quantity considered one of which is being restored to the White Home. That is extraordinarily disturbing as a result of, properly, within the fall of 2020, in a presidential debate, Donald Trump might be requested, properly, are you aware what a Proud Boy is or are you aware what QAnon is, and he might say, oh, I am not so positive. That is not the case in the present day.
Right this moment it is fairly clear and the issue that we face is that again and again, in tweets by the previous president, he's intentionally stoking not simply the fires of anger of getting him political assist, however the fires which are resulting in that violent 13 -- the equal of 13 million. And that's actually the guts of our downside that we face as a menace to democracy as a result of if it is only a political menace, properly, then we will have elections. However as soon as it isn't simply denying an election however utilizing violence because the response to an election denial, now we're in a brand new recreation. And that is why it is so essential we have now this dialog.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What has the FBI's search of the previous president's house performed to the folks you might be monitoring?
ROBERT PATE: So, what we have performed in our ballot, the one which we only in the near past did over the weekend, is we requested an extra query, which is, do you imagine that using power is justified to forestall the prosecution of Donald Trump for mishandling labeled data? And the numbers go up a bit. Not large. Goes from 13 to fifteen million.
However, curiously, once we pull aside the information, you get a barely totally different set of supporters. So, what's actually regarding is there's a bit little bit of ebb and circulation that goes up, as we see new points come on the horizon. And that implies that we have to simply realizes, that is actually essential and we have to have this nationwide dialog about what we actually need in our nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that is why we have now you right here in the present day, to begin that dialog, sir. Thanks for are sharing your data.
ROBERT PATE: Thanks, Margaret. Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be again in a second.
ROBERT PATE: Thanks.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to CBS Information chief Washington correspondent Main Garrett and CBS Information election legislation contributor David Becker, who've a brand new ebook out on the state of American democracy. It is known as "The Large Reality: Upholding Democracy In The Age Of The Large Lie."
Congratulations to you each.
DAVID BECKER: Thanks very a lot.
MAJOR GARRETT: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You realize, Main, I wish to begin with you as a result of in these simply actually the primary web page of the ebook you utilize the phrase "American Civil Struggle." You go on to write down that within the upcoming election in November, and in 2024, belief itself goes to be examined. Democracy not suffers from a scarcity of take part power, it suffers from a scarcity of respect, allegiance, data, humanity, and most of all, belief.
How harmful is the second that we're in?
MAJOR GARRETT: It feels extra harmful, Margaret, than any I've encounter in overlaying politics on the nationwide degree since 1990. Stating what clearly what occurred in 2020, it wasn't a fraudulent election, no crime was dedicated. That does not imply you need to be proud of the consequence. However one of many burdens of democracy is if you're sad with the consequence, your obligation is to win the following election, not slander baselessly the election you pretty misplaced. And we have now a part of American politics now that wishes to slander an elections that was pretty misplaced as a result of they're sad. And that unhappiness doesn't entitle you to pull down American democracy as a result of if, Margaret, we enter a part in American life the place both political occasion refuses to just accept a good and verified election just because it misplaced, then we are going to dismantle democracy little by little earlier than our very eyes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One among our colleagues right here, Nicole Skinga (ph), interviewed Kim Wyman (ph). She is the senior election safety lead at -- a part of Homeland Safety. She spent 30 years working in elections out within the state of Washington. And on this interview, she clearly is feeling that this menace is hitting house. Take a hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Among the threats are actual, you recognize, we will cling you, I hope someone places a bullet in your head, that form of factor. So, it is unnerving. It is unnerving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is a Homeland Safety official being moved to tears by what she is speaking about. I imply, it is extraordinarily highly effective to me to listen to that.
How frequent is that proper now?
DAVID BECKER: Sure, sadly, it is quite common. She, like so lots of her colleagues, and she or he's seeing this as a result of she's working with them, are going through an onslaught of threats and harassment and abuse within the aftermath of the 2020 election that's fully divorced from the fact of their success. The election professionals everywhere in the nation, pink states, blue states, Republicans, Democrats, in some way managed the very best turnout we have now ever seen in American historical past in the midst of a world pandemic. And the last word outcomes of this election had been -- withstood scrutiny from 60 courts across the nation. It was outstanding.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is the situation they worry this November?
DAVID BECKER: They embrace aggressive transparency. They need everybody to see every part that they are doing. And but regardless of the info, regardless of that transparency, all that appears to matter is that some folks imagine that it's inconceivable for his or her candidate to lose. And if we get so divorced from that actuality, we get so divorced from our democratic ideas that, as Main stated, we begin being unwilling to just accept the potential for defeat, what may then -- what may be doable then?
And we have already seen this. This is not hypothetical. We have seen this on January sixth. And we might see sooner or later dozens of little January sixth not centered on Washington on one specific date, however centered in many alternative locations on many alternative dates.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And, Main, you discuss in regards to the political advantages to calling 2020 into election, significantly for the previous president. In accordance with CBS numbers, in battleground states, over 60 p.c of Republican candidates on the poll are election deniers. Two of the perfect recognized, maybe, Kari Lake out in Arizona and Doug Mastriano in Pennsylvania.
Is that this -- indulging this merely the price of successful an endorsement from the previous president, who's a political energy home, or do they imagine it?
MAJOR GARRETT: It is actually the previous, getting presidents in -- President Trump's endorsement runs by means of a sieve that requires you to say the 2020 election was stolen. And if you happen to say it the loudest of any of the Republicans additionally vying for that endorsement in any specific state, you are almost certainly to get that endorsement.
And Kari Lake is an attention-grabbing instance of this phenomenon. She stated earlier than the first was determined that fraud was afoot. She stated whereas votes had been being counted fraud was afoot. She was trailing after which she got here out forward late within the course of and stated it was, then, due to this fact, legit.
I'd solely say that isn't a veil of hypocrisy, that's the very definition of hypocrisy. The precise course of you assailed is the one which made you the GOP nominee. Subsequently, it is legit solely since you develop into the nominee? That does not add up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: David, we have talked prior to now about Democrats who've questioned the end result of elections. Republicans usually level to that when that is mentioned.
How involved are you now that this type of language is simply changing into not normalized however made into only a political device?
DAVID BECKER: Sure, I am very involved about that as a result of factually talking proper now we have now essentially the most skilled, correct, clear, safe election system we have ever had. And it retains getting higher each election cycle. However - and --
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it is attention-grabbing you say that as a result of, as you recognize, there was this motion to vary voting rights and to guard them. So, it's changing into mentioned as if there's something, maybe, not working proper.
DAVID BECKER: It is actually troubling within the sense that whereas it isn't ethical equivalence right here, it isn't coming equally from either side of the political spectrum, it's undoubtedly coming overwhelmingly from the intense proper proper now. There actually are points of it coming from throughout the political spectrum. However we might get to a degree that if that is seen as politics as common, that that is simply a part of the sport. We'll be at a really, very harmful level for our democracy. If the shedding aspect can't settle for defeat, particularly in a rustic that is divided 50-50.
MAJOR GARRETT: The good worry I've, Margaret, is, politics is so much just like the NFL. It is a copycat league. No matter succeeds, you replicate. On the suitable, within the Trump world now, the quickest strategy to social media fame and fundraising is to disclaim the 2020 election. You do not assume Democrats aren't watching that? And perhaps tempted by the identical social media and fundraising lure that that has? They are going to be. That is why we have now to cease it, again away from it and say, not right here, not this place. This a part of our civic life is sacred.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks each for sharing the ebook with us and your insights.
We'll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks for watching. For FACE THE NATION, I am Margaret Brennan.