The next is a transcript of an interview with Marie Yovanovitch, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, that aired Sunday, March 27, 2022, on "Face the Nation."
JOHN DICKERSON: We wish to flip again now to the battle in Ukraine and welcome the previous US ambassador to that nation, Marie Yovanovitch. She's the writer of a brand new memoir, "Classes from the Edge." Good morning, Ambassador.
FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE MARIE YOVANOVITCH: Good morning.
JOHN DICKERSON: President Biden, three days in Europe, Brussels after which went to Poland. What did you make of that go to?
YOVANOVITCH: I assumed it was a vastly vital journey the place the president was capable of display not solely American management however Western unity on this vastly vital problem that Russia has inflicted on Ukraine, however extra broadly on the West.
JOHN DICKERSON: He talked about unity. How fragile is that unity? As a result of it looks like everyone is saying all the proper issues. How fragile is it? So fragile? The president should go and make a go to to maintain it collectively.
YOVANOVITCH: I believe one month in there was a symbolic impact, however there have been additionally numerous accomplishments that have been cited in the course of the numerous summits. This was slender, nevertheless it was additionally the European Union. It was the G7. There have been - after which clearly the journey to Poland, the place he met with President Duda, in addition to Ukrainian refugees, in addition to the 82nd Airborne, and naturally, importantly, the Ukrainian protection and overseas ministers. So I believe rather a lot was completed there and numerous bulletins have been made, you realize, increasingly humanitarian help, the 100,000 slots for refugees, extra army teams going out to Europe and the checklist goes on.
JOHN DICKERSON: The 100,000 refugees that Biden mentioned that America would take. How vital is that in speaking to Europeans who're those? I imply, Poland is taking the brunt of the refugees. How vital is that by way of exhibiting that America is pulling its weight, for lack of a greater time period –
YOVANOVITCH: The burden and being supportive? I believe it is vital, however I actually my very own opinion is that it is only a begin as a result of once you've obtained as much as 10 million, simply been maybe the numbers are even larger this morning. 10 million displaced folks in out of- out of Ukraine, about 3.5 in- in Europe, 100,000 does not start to, you realize, actually begin to method the type of figures that we're in all probability going to wish to point out. That mentioned, although, many Ukrainian folks aren't trying to come to the U.S. and even to Western Europe. They wish to keep shut as a result of they wish to return and rebuild. I imply, it is actually inspiring.
JOHN DICKERSON: You may have contexts there. You reside there. You inform me what you are listening to from inside Ukraine.
YOVANOVITCH: Nicely, they're you realize, they're type of encouraging me. You understand, after I specific issues and fear, they're saying, don't be concerned, we have this. We're going to we're going to carry on preventing. And they're. And so they're asking for our assist. And so only recently, I obtained an e-mail from certainly one of my former bodyguards who needed he mentioned, you realize, "Madam Ambassador, you realize, I'd by no means ask for myself, however I actually I would like gear for my group. I would like, you realize, medical kits. I would like physique armor. I would like boots." And so I attempted to hook him up with some individuals who might present them.
JOHN DICKERSON: How do they learn the statements by President Biden and different Individuals who say, we're with you. We're with you. We're with you besides to the border?
YOVANOVITCH: Yeah, effectively, you may think about that on the one hand, maybe at a really excessive stage, they perceive that we have now Article 5 tasks underneath the NATO Treaty. However alternatively, they need that we might do extra. I believe we're doing rather a lot, however I believe we have to carry on backfilling relating to safety help as a result of the Ukrainians are utilizing the whole lot that we and different nations are offering. However we have to carry on backfilling it as a result of it has been used.
JOHN DICKERSON: As a profession diplomat, how do you learn, and your experience is not only Ukraine however Russia as effectively, how do you learn this Donbass transfer from the Russians? The concept that- the general public assertion is they will give attention to Donbas. Does that have an impact by way of diplomacy? In different phrases, might some nations say, okay, effectively, it isn't fairly, however we'll give them Donbas simply so we might be completed with this battle?
YOVANOVITCH: Yeah, I believe- so, maybe. However I believe that what we have discovered during the last month and a half or a number of months, if not the final 20 years, is that we will not all the time belief what the Russians are saying. So, they made that assertion after which a day or so later, they attacked Lviv within the west- far west of Ukraine, very far-off from the Donbas. So I believe we have to wait and see.
JOHN DICKERSON: There's an extremely prescient second in your guide the place you discuss U.S. not likely studying Vladimir Putin proper, and you expect that is earlier than any of this occurred, quote, we are going to sometime, possibly quickly discover ourselves in a severe confrontation in a context not of our selecting and to not our benefit. So constructing on that platform, how is the interpretation- the West's interpretation or America's interpretation of Putin- how- are we getting him proper at this second and the way ought to we take into consideration the best way he sees issues?
YOVANOVITCH: Yeah. You understand, that's the query for the time being, is not it? And I- I- suppose it is arduous to know. It was all the time arduous to know. However particularly now after COVID and the isolation that he finds himself in with only a very small group of advisers, individuals who've been with him, you realize, since Okay.G.B., St Petersburg days. And there is simply not- not rather a lot we learn about what sort of recommendation he is getting or what he is aware of. However I do suppose that Putin is a person who solely understands power. And so when, you realize, proper now, the- the- the Biden administration is making an attempt to navigate this very slender lane of supporting Ukraine on the one hand, standing up for our values and our pursuits, but in addition doing the utmost to not broaden the battle. And after we have a look at that as a constructive factor, that that is restrained and constructive, I believe typically maybe Vladimir Putin appears to be like at it as an indication of weak point. And so, once more, it is a very tough lane to navigate. And proper now, I believe the Biden administration is doing a reasonably good job of it. However clearly it require- requires fixed calibration and recalibration by way of what is going on on on the bottom.
JOHN DICKERSON: I wish to get to one thing you wrote about in your guide. You talked about chauvinism on the State Division, how there have been no feminine function fashions. This week, Madeleine Albright, the primary feminine secretary of state, died. You served underneath her. Inform me about that have and the way vital it was to have a girl in that function.
YOVANOVITCH: Nicely, she- she you realize, she broke that cup ceiling. And after getting one, you are going to have one other one. And he or she was a task mannequin, I believe, for many people. I used to be very junior when- when she was secretary of state. However she was a pioneer as the primary girl secretary of state. She was- as an immigrant to this nation from, in truth, I believe, a refugee from Japanese Europe, war-torn Japanese Europe. She was a robust voice for democracy and human rights and for Ukraine. And so I obtained to know her just a bit bit. It was a privilege when she visited Ukraine whereas I used to be there as ambassador, and she or he very kindly took trip to talk with me and supply recommendation and encouragement.
JOHN DICKERSON: All proper, Marie Yovanovitch. Ambassador, thanks a lot for being with us.
YOVANOVITCH: Thanks.
JOHN DICKERSON: And we'll be proper again.