The next is a transcript of an interview with White Home nationwide safety adviser Jake Sullivan that aired Sunday, February 13, 2022, on "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the White Home, nationwide safety adviser Jake Sullivan. Good morning to you, Jake.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR JAKE SULLIVAN: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have been on that hour-long name between President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin. There have been no breakthroughs. Is there any purpose to consider Putin goes to take any of the diplomatic choices you have given him?
SULLIVAN: Look, I am not going to foretell what Vladimir Putin goes to do. All I can do is ensure that we're ready to reply. Both means, if Russia desires to proceed participating diplomatically to discover a means ahead to deal with their safety issues and our safety issues, we're ready to try this. If Russia decides as a substitute to take main army motion in opposition to Ukraine. We're ready to reply decisively –
MARGARET BRENNAN: However there is not any diplomacy underway proper now? There's nothing that got here out of yesterday's name?
SULLIVAN: Nicely, the 2 presidents did instruct their groups to stay engaged, so we'll achieve this and we'll proceed to check the proposition that we are able to discover a diplomatic path ahead. In parallel to that, we'll proceed to prepare with our allies and companions to impose swift and extreme penalties if Russia strikes ahead. So so far as we're involved, the USA of America diplomacy continues to be open and accessible. But when Russia chooses to maneuver, we're ready to reply.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You stated an assault by Russia might occur as quickly as this week. Are you seeing Russian troops transfer into tactical positions?
SULLIVAN: Now we have seen over the course of the previous 10 days a dramatic acceleration within the buildup of Russian forces and the disposition of these forces in such a means that they may launch a army motion, basically at any time. They might achieve this this coming week. However after all, it nonetheless awaits the go order. And so subsequently, we can't predict the exact day or time that they might take motion. We are also watching very rigorously for the chance that there's a pretext or a false flag operation to kick off the Russian motion during which Russian intelligence providers conduct some form of assault on Russian proxy forces in japanese Ukraine or on Russian residents, after which blame it on the Ukrainians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hmm. Russian intelligence is already publicly claiming issues are taking place within the east of Ukraine and that Donbas area. Is that the flashpoint the place you suppose issues would begin?
SULLIVAN: It's one distinct chance, and to your level, the Russian media has been laying the groundwork for this publicly by attempting to situation their public that some form of assault by the Ukrainians is imminent. And there's a form of weird high quality to all of this the place the Russians are claiming they're those who're beneath risk, even though they've amassed greater than 100000 forces on the troops of- excuse me, on the border of their neighbor. And so they have finished so not simply on their very own territory, however on the territory of Belarus, which is the nation, after all, that borders Ukraine to the North.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. I imply, you stated on Friday within the White Home briefing room, Individuals ought to get out throughout the subsequent 24 to 48 hours. That places us at at present. What are you telling Individuals who stay? Ought to they go underground? Is it too late to depart now?
SULLIVAN: So long as industrial transport choices can be found, Individuals ought to benefit from them. We had hoped, based mostly on our warnings, that Individuals would have gotten out by now, however so long as these industrial transit choices can be found, Individuals ought to avail themselves of them. They need to transfer out by air or rail or street as quickly as doable. As a result of, as I stated, additionally on Friday, if there's army motion, if there's a conflict between Russia and Ukraine began by a Russian invasion of Ukraine. President Biden shouldn't be meaning to set in- to ship in American forces to battle Russia in that conflict, and Individuals who've the chance to get out now ought to avail themselves of it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However airspace stays open proper now. If Russia does perform this invasion, you have talked in regards to the penalties with sanctions, however are you dedicated to truly funding, arming, serving to a Ukrainian insurgency?
SULLIVAN: Nicely, what the president has stated is that we are going to proceed to help Ukraine even after an invasion begins, and I am not going to get into the particular particulars of what that may appear to be, however it is without doubt one of the three elementary components of our response. Proceed to help Ukraine because it seeks to withstand Russian aggression. Second, impose extreme and swift financial measures in live performance with our allies and companions that go at Russia's monetary system and at its protection industrial base. After which third, reinforce, reassure and deter that is- reinforce NATO territory, reassure our allies on the japanese flank and deter Russia from any motion in opposition to NATO allies to whom we've got a sacred Article 5 dedication to defend. We're going to perform all of these actions--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SULLIVAN: --in the occasion that Russia strikes ahead, and we have been very clear about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However on the similar time, there's excessive danger doubtlessly of miscalculation. I imply, you take a look at this map and these army workouts, it isn't simply highest quantity because the Chilly Warfare. I imply, you've got fairly shut proximity between NATO troops and Russian troops. Is that this only a potential danger of a miscalculation that is extremely excessive at this second? Why is the White Home utilizing the phrase catastrophic to explain what would occur right here?
SULLIVAN: Nicely, Margaret, a part of the rationale that we have been as clear as we've got in regards to the deployment of American forces to Romania and Poland, about our workouts from the Mediterranean as much as the Baltics, the rationale we have gone out publicly and laid out each what the scope and parameters of these deployments and workouts are and what their goal is, is to keep away from mistake, miscalculation or escalation and likewise to ship a really clear message to Russia. We'll defend each inch of NATO's territory, each inch of Article 5 territory and Russia, we expect, totally understands that message.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However is it doable that is simply the world's most costly and harmful bluff on the a part of Vladimir Putin?
SULLIVAN: Once more, as I stated on the high of your present, I can not get within the head of Vladimir Putin and I can not predict precisely what he'll do. All we are able to do with president Biden- at President Biden's path is put together, put together for diplomacy to discover a means ahead that's sustainable and sturdy and advances the safety of all the USA, Russia and Europe, and put together for the potential of a serious army motion within the coming days. Now we have finished that over the course of the previous few months, and I sit right here earlier than you at present ready for both choice. The USA is ready. Our allies are ready. And now it is as much as Russia to find out what the following step they are going to take.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, China and Russia say it is a new period. They're becoming a member of alliances, so you might be threatening to harm Russia financially, they appear to be indicating there is a new world order the place they don't seem to be so fearful about that risk.
SULLIVAN: Nicely, initially, Margaret, China won't be ready to compensate Russia for the losses that it's going to endure within the occasion that the USA and its allies impose financial measures on Russia. Second, and possibly extra importantly, all of us should have a bit extra confidence in ourselves, the USA, the West, the main democracies of the world the place greater than 50 p.c of the world's financial system. China and Russia, are lower than 20 p.c. We have got innovation--
MARGARET BRENNAN: They are not with out leverage.
SULLIVAN: --entrepreneurship and sure we have freedom. Sure, however I believe a part of the problem with the discourse in Washington proper now's there's a lot emphasis on China and Russia's leverage and never almost sufficient on our leverage, our capability, our energy, our means to have a stronger, extra decided, extra purposeful west, a extra united NATO and extra solidified transatlantic alliance than at any level in trendy reminiscence. That's what Russia is producing at value to itself if it strikes on Ukraine, and that may carry monumental human prices to the Ukrainian folks. However it should additionally carry vital strategic value to Russia, and the USA stands prepared within the aftermath of such an exercise. Facet by facet, with our allies and companions to face up for our pursuits and values.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake, I do know Afghanistan and Ukraine could not be extra completely different, however there's all the time the danger if you find yourself making coverage selections that you simply're preventing the final conflict as a substitute of addressing what's taking place now. These loud warnings about Ukraine, about the necessity to get out. Is that this due to how the White Home miscalculated the extent of chaos across the US evacuation from Afghanistan? President Biden stated this week that he wasn't warned. Nobody informed me. And he rejected the findings of this military report, pointing to errors.
SULLIVAN: Nicely, initially, Margaret, Afghanistan does play into this in an vital means as a result of the American folks noticed the USA deploy hundreds of troopers after which evacuate 100 and twenty 4 thousand folks from Kabul final August. It's very doable that there are some Individuals on the market in Ukraine considering the very same factor goes to occur in Ukraine. And it is our obligation to point to them that that isn't in reality, the case that there's a huge distinction between ending a 20 yr conflict in Afghanistan and sending American forces in to battle Russian forces close to their border in a conflict in Ukraine, which the president shouldn't be ready to do. So we try to dispel any notion that the USA goes to deploy hundreds of forces to Ukraine to battle as a way to evacuate Individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you be taught the teachings of Afghanistan? Are you making use of them now?
SULLIVAN: Nicely, initially, to the purpose in regards to the report, you simply talked about, the president and I sitting right here at present do reject the reviews in The Washington Submit that the White Home or the NSC sought to decelerate the evacuation--
MARGARET BRENNAN: This was a FOIA'd version--
SULLIVAN: -- the other is true--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --of an Military Report.
SULLIVAN: -- from the president. From- from the president on down. It was the White Home and the NSC pushing army leaders and diplomats daily via these early days of August to say, ought to we start the evacuation now and as quickly as- the minute our army leaders and diplomats really helpful to the president that he achieve this actually that minute, he ordered the evacuation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: August twelfth. Thanks, Jake Sullivan, on your time at present. We'll be watching. Good luck.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will probably be again in a second. Stick with us.